Renata: the reason why we decided to do this is because we had such a good lunch the other day and we’re both Enterprise Fellows of the University of Melbourne. I don’t know exactly if we know what that means, but we will find out eventually.
Stella: Yeah.Consistent with the ways of the world at the moment, we’re working it out together.
Renata: Yeah, weare, we are. But you started talking about some very interesting issues and I thought, hmm, this is such a good conversation for the podcast. And I think that it’s so timely. I have seen quite a few articles and other conversations also discussing the future of work, skill gaps, roles of organizations. Why are we still organized in the way that we are?You know, the whole structure of the organization and that’s your area of expertise. So you have this background in HR, in innovation. I want you to talk to us, maybe let’s start with you telling us a little bit about what you do and why you do it. What led you to VOST?
Stella: Wow, that’s a deep question. ⁓ I think I’ve always been intrigued by human behavior, even when I was young, very young, and it was one of those musings for me. And so when I discovered psychology, as an early young adult, I thought, my goodness, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for. And so I really, I think tookto psychology, but it was really interesting that at the same time, I remember thinking, gosh, why do people only study one thing? you know, surely you would need to connect it with some other ideas. ⁓ And so I think that that led me to ⁓ broaden out my, you know, intellectual prowess. And so I studied a master of commerce with University of Melbourne as part of that journey.And I think consulting allows you to play with ideas across a spectrum of things and pull strings together and sometimes create some really magical experiences for your clients. So I think that, you know, that’s pretty much been what ⁓ drew me to the work that I do at the moment.
Renata: Tell me about some of the work that you have done. Explain to the listeners the sort of challenges that you deal with as a consultant.
Stella: Yeah, sure. ⁓ You know, I think ⁓ there’s always, everything has two sides to it. So I think coming into an organization as a consultant is very challenging initially because there’s a really, really steep and fast learning curve.⁓ You’re walking into an organization where people have been there a long time usually they’ve got their ways of working They know what’s going on and they really expect you to be able to very very quickly click into that and so there is There is and that’s a skill. It’s a skill to walk into a room or an environment That is completely new and very quickly ⁓ through a process of process of osmosis Make it seem that you are at onewith them and so there’s a lot of kind of this ramp up of learning that happens quietly in the background. ⁓ And, you know, I think that there’s a lot of advantages to at times appropriately working with an external party, a consulting party who can look at things with eyes that you can’t anymore when you become an internal person, you just become a little bit blind and desensitized.to things that an external party can see. And also there are sometimes things that aren’t necessarily safe to say when you’re an internal person. And so as an external consultant, ⁓ you you have an armory or there’s courage and bravery to call out something that is really important for the organization ⁓ that needs addressing with the intent.because there’s no conflict in terms of why you’re calling it out with the intent to actually improve the organization of the person. So I think that, you know, being the consultant is, has a double edged sword because it can be really challenging, but at the same time, it’s really important in some aspects and sometimes.
Renata: As you were speaking, I was thinking about a large cohort of my followers and listeners who I’m about to engage more closely with in the next month or so, who are going to lose their jobs. If you’re going to be following me in May, June, I will be talking about it as it unfolds. Many of whom I think will be great consultants could really
Stella: you
Renata: ⁓ find jobs in consultancy as they move out of their permanent positions. What do you think it takes for you to become a consultant, especially one like yourself, where you are not only a consultant, but also very entrepreneurial because you first co-founded a consultancy. Now you are working ⁓
Stella: Yeah.Yeah.
Renata: without your business partner now since the beginning of the year, what does it take to have that entrepreneurialism weaved into consultancy?
Stella: Yep.Yeah, look, think ⁓ I do think that you need to feel the connection to the growth of an organization. It’s very different to being in an internal corporate role where you are maintaining a certain part of the organization. ⁓ And so I think that that that not that mindset of ⁓ adding value and growing ⁓ is a reallykind of innate part of consulting, I think, that it doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone’s a salesperson. It doesn’t necessarily mean that everybody has to be in a business development role. But even when you’re in supporting roles within a consulting organization, that you’re always actually contributing to new clients and new experiences and new projects and being really quite excited and open about the newness.of those things. ⁓ And that requires actually some resilience. ⁓ sorry, my puppy is chatting. She agrees. She agrees. ⁓ And so I think that, yeah, having an openness to that and sometimes that moves quickly as well. And so being able to ⁓ be quite, you know, I don’t necessarily throw the word agile around, but it’s an adaptive.
Renata: That’s okay. This is a very casual podcast.Mmm.
Stella: ⁓mindset to go, okay, well, we’re doing this today, that’s finished. And now we’re starting something new tomorrow with a new client and it’s a new project and it’s a new set of people. And so I think that there is something about being able to connect with that blood flow that goes through a consulting vein for always this new and different and ⁓ open to different experiences.approach, which I think for some people can be a little bit challenging, but for others it’s really quite liberating and exciting as well.
Renata: Yeah, yeah, that’s a great answer. I’d love to talk about your area of expertise now, starting with us maybe looking at skills gap, right? We’re in 2025. If people are listening to this episode many years in the future, they might sort of look back and think, oh my gosh, were they right? Were they wrong?
Stella: Yeah.
Renata: things seem to be moving so fast. I was reading about the sort of forecast that possibly 40 % of our skills as employees will be changing before 2030. And that of course has a significant emphasis on AI and big data. But I wanted to hear your perspective on what
Stella: Yeah.
Renata: constitutes the current skills and capability gap right now in organizations, what you’re seeing right now and how this is going to continue to evolve.
Stella: Yeah.Yeah, look, I think ⁓ it’s a really great question and I think that it’s a fascinating one that we’re all kind of living through together at the same time. ⁓ You know, I like to think about it, it’s almost like living through the age where ⁓ agriculture was slowly coming to an end and we’re all out on the farms and all of a sudden we’re going, my gosh, we don’t need these spades and we don’t need these tools anymore because, you know, there’s new ways of doing this sort of work.And so, what does that mean for me? What am I actually going to do now? And so there is a, I think a calling for people to be able to, ⁓ again, it’s quite adaptive to be able to adapt and ⁓ take the onus, I think for themselves to learn new skills. ⁓ And that can be a little bit scary because I think that some, know, our previous…employers in the past used to invest a lot in training and you’d expect your boss to train you for something. It’s different now. It’s different now because that you do get some of that, but you all there is also I think an opportunity and an onus for you to upskill and develop yourself as well. There’s so much free ⁓ information and access tolearning and development material that we have to be able to do that. It’s actually about prioritizing it and making the time for it and recognizing it as something that’s actually quite important, not only for your current job, but also for your future employability as well. You know, I think that I think most people are doing a good job of trying to develop their AI skills. Most people I speak to have had a go.
Renata: Mmm.
Stella: I think some people are a little bit scared of it and not sure exactly what it’s doing, but still ⁓ attempting to give it a go and learn. And I think that there’s also an increasing ⁓ need for people to also build on and develop their cybersecurity skills because they go together. So if you’re going to, youbecome a really good prompt engineer of AI and learn how to drive it really well, which is fantastic. You should also learn the importance of cybersecurity and how those two things work together for yourself and for your organization. And you know, they, I think they’re the new ways of the world that ⁓ it’s a new lexicon that we’re all talking that we all need to become very comfortable with, I think.
Renata: youYes, it’s so true. It’s interesting because even what you mentioned about us taking control and not waiting for the organization to teach us that self leadership is also a skill in itself, isn’t it? That we need to remember that from now on, we’re probably going to have to be more autonomous and work more independently, hybridly or
Stella: Yeah.
Renata: remote and that means taking, having that discipline of searching for ourselves. ⁓ So that is a skill. We actually did an episode on that. I’ll put a link below on self leadership because that’s an interesting episode. ⁓ But having said that, what do think organizations are doing today to help the workforce as they get ready for the demands of the new decade?
Stella: Yeah.Yeah.Well, based on what I can see so far, I think it depends on which sector you happen to be working in. And I think it depends on whether that organization is actually in growth mode or is in kind of a place where they’re trying to save costs and cut costs because, ⁓ you know, the shifts that are required by an organization require investment at the moment. They need investment in terms of time.and energy and the attention of managers and leaders and executives, as well as the funding that needs to go with ⁓ some sort of a digital transformation. And it can be a small digital transformation or a really big one. Now these things are on a continuum. But ⁓ I think that there are some organizations which actually are a bit like ⁓ a deer in the headlights where they’ve just frozen ⁓ and they’re not sure exactly what to do. And so they’re really doing nothing.or they’re banning AI because they can’t work out ⁓ how to go forward. And so I think that there’s opportunities for organizations to learn as well. ⁓ And that includes board members and that includes CEOs and that includes, ⁓ you know, executives and managers and leaders as well. And so I think that there is, if you happen to be working in one of those organizations,that asking yourself, what am I actually doing? If my executive team is not kind of focused on this, what am I doing to try to improve that narrative internally and contribute to getting us to a place where we’re starting to connect with the organizations who are leaders in this field or first to market in this field. First to market isn’t always necessarily the best place, second to market is…can be just as good because you learn from the first to market, but you’ve got to move.
Renata: Yeah. Is it okay for us to extrapolate on that example that you gave and say that organizations that are, thinking about the work from home, back in the office dilemma and organizations that are going, there’s no more work from home, you have to all come back to the office. Do you think that that’s the same kind of sense of desperation from not knowing what to do? So let’s just do that.blanket approach.
Stella: Yeah, look, it’s very complexissue, that one. And I think that that is absolutely one of the variables that plays into some organizations who make those decisions. Because, you know, commanding the technology to be able to have a completely virtual hybrid or remote workforce.needs investment in the systems and the tools and as well as an uplift in the capability of everybody to use them and use them well. But then it’s also actually a cultural shift. It changes your culture. You have to think and work very differently and interact with each other very differently. And so, you know, if you’re in an organization that is trying to be more hybrid or a more virtual, a bit more remote,then I think there’s a responsibility for every employee to be asking themselves, how can I be a better team member, virtually and remote, rather than just squirreling away and saying, this is amazing because I’m getting all of my work done, which is great, but you actually need to make sure that you’re connecting in with your team. How are you doing that? And so I think that there’s challenges and opportunities for learning here for those organizations and the people within them. And then there’sother more complex issues like, you know, existing liabilities on commercial real estate, which makes it a very difficult financial situation for some organizations. And, you know, let’s talk about the big ⁓ P word, which is power. you know, when, when ⁓ we’ve got some, some, some leaders who have come through our older, more traditional environment of leading where you would sit down andwhat’s your teamwork? You know, that there is a sense of control in that, that links into power. So if I’m removed from that, then as a leader, my gosh, I have no control and I have no power. And now I’m feeling a bit vulnerable. So let’s all get back to the office because that’s where I feel comfortable. So that’s quite complex and very fascinating and very interesting.
Renata: Yes, yes. I have this feeling that we’re always worried that we’re going to be replaced, we? Replaced by others, replaced by bots and AI, replaced by the fact that we don’t see our employees anymore. So how come they still need us and so forth? I find that really fascinating. And I wonder, you know, what you think about that in terms of
Stella: Yeah.YeahMmm
Renata: this adaptability and reskilling the workforce for this new era of work where we are working more independently, even if we are coming back to the office a few days a week, that we are using tools to make our work faster, but then we’re probably working harder. I don’t know if you have felt that, but I use Chat2PT a lot for my clients. teach them how to use it.And it doesn’t mean that I’m working less. I have never worked so hard. It seems like, I don’t know if it’s a steep learning curve for everybody or if it will be always the case that once you invest time and energy and you want to use something well, a new tool, a new style of working that you just seem like you’re burning out even more.
Stella: Yeah, look, I think, ⁓ there is fatigue that comes with change and I think everybody feels that. And so, ⁓ being able to manage your own levels of resilience and know your limits is a part of this. It’s a bit like my back, you know, one, one extra workout session that week meant that, you know, I ended up in a little bit of trouble and needed to recover. And so I think that, ⁓you know, understanding that there is ⁓ a need for a bit more time and a bit more energy to build some of the new skills and that that’s actually going to mean that you probably might feel a little bit of stress because, ⁓ you know, it just means that some of the other obligations that you’ve got become a little bit more compressed for a short period of time. And so what are the things that you can do to make sure that you feel okay ⁓ through that period?And so there’s lots of different things that you can consider in terms of, know, wellbeing, in terms of mindfulness, in terms of reaching out and actually having, I’m a very, as a psychologist, a very big fan of having a psychologist, not only in times of crisis, but on an ongoing basis for your mental health. It’s a bit like a cartoon up and service. And so…⁓ you know, think that having those support mechanisms around us is really important so that we’re talking about how we’re feeling and how we’re, how we’re progressing as well. ⁓ and recognizing that we actually are achieving something and we’ve moved over the course of some weeks and how good is that? That’s amazing. I can now put something in my resume that wasn’t there last month. ⁓ but you know, it, needed me to kind of really exert a bit of effort for a while to make that thing happen.⁓ So I think it’s an important notion around recognizing the fatigue and the stress that we all can experience and it’s actually normal and it’s also okay. We don’t wanna go through life where we never experience any change fatigue or any stress because that’s where we go into a rust out situation and there’s no growth and there’s no one thrives. ⁓But what we do want to do is make sure that we don’t flip over into a burnout situation. We want to find that comfortable place in the middle where there’s always a little bit of stress. There’s a little bit of healthy anxiety which moves us forward.
Renata: Yeah, that’s a very good answer. Do you help organizations develop strategies and policies to use AI as a tool to augment their services and the way that they produce services and…I’m wondering, cause I’ve been out of the workforce for so long. I really do not know how this is being done at the moment and how this is being formalized. I see a lot of things that I know have been done using AI and sometimes they are overt about it. So Adidas is comes to mind because they did a huge campaign, all AI design, all AI driven. And it was quite bizarre because the things that
Stella: Yeah.Yeah.
Renata: was in that campaign, know, the shoes and the clothes, they don’t exist. And now everybody wants to buy them and they don’t exist because AI made it up. But then most of the time, especially with small and medium sized organizations, you just notice that AI has written a piece of work or they’re coming across as really sort of, it’s not as overt. And I’m not really sure if that’s usefulfor them because the trained eye, at least for me, I can tell immediately that it was AI written, right? Are you helping organizations deal with that?
Stella: Yeah. Yeah.Yeah, look, it’s an ongoing conversation often with ⁓ the executives of those organizations. I might be ⁓ executive coaching them one-on-one or we might be going through some sort of leadership development program. the question, even when I attend board events, I’ll be speaking to board members ⁓ about these issues around, you know, what sort of policies actually have you put in place in some?There’s less now over the last couple of years, I’ve noticed that there’s a ⁓ much stronger ⁓ connection with putting in place policies. sometimes it’s, yes, our policy is that there’s, it’s a no, no one can use it, which I don’t agree with. ⁓ But I think that most organizations have at least put in place a policy at this stage. And the big organizations like the Adidas of the world and you know,the Telstra’s and the banks, they are very, very sophisticated in terms of their processes, their policies, their teams, their investments. ⁓ They are well, well ahead of the majority of other medium sized organizations who are, I’d say half of them are doing a good job of trying to introduce the more common ones like ChatJBT and having corporate accounts which provides them with some security. ⁓but then others who I think are not quite sure what to do. And so a lot of employees are using their free accounts. The free accounts to actually, you know, be able to make, get their work done a bit faster and a little bit better, not realizing the risks that they introduce through the release of that information into a free AI learning model. ⁓ And so I think thatspeaking to executives one-on-one in leadership programs around creating a culture and a mindset that’s open to AI, ⁓ but also balancing the security needs of the organization and how to work with employees to educate them and raise the awareness and make that a really kind of core part of our ways of working around here. So I think that⁓ I can certainly see an improvement over the last two years. ⁓ I think they’re really big organizations have gone, you know, well steps ahead and kind of baked it into a lot of the way that they operate. But I think that there’s also a, ⁓ you know, a big group of companies that still have a way to go in terms of protecting themselves. And I think uplifting the skills of their people so that
Renata: Yeah.
Stella: Not only do they do their jobs better with them, but they also become far more employable in the future too.
Renata: Do you think we can take a few minutes to brainstorm what those risks could be? What are the sort of most common risks that you think could happen if employees are using free accounts and ⁓ uploading, prompting the chat to be to you or the clouds or whatever with ⁓ information that shouldn’t be disclosed?
Stella: Thank you.Yeah, look, think, you there’s a couple of more high profile examples of that where, I think they’re probably not more recent now, where code was actually released into, and then it was actually picked up by a competitor. So I think that being able to protect intellectual property that is quite unique.
Renata: Yeah.
Stella: to an organization, if it goes into a learning model, which then trains, you know, quite openly and publicly, it just means that when somebody does a search for something, they can accidentally receive copies of that intellectual ⁓ property ⁓ in a response that that AI system provides. And so I think that when organizations actually set up safedata environments, they can create digital walls where people can do all of that work and ask all of those questions, but it’s protected. It’s actually not going out into the big wide world. And so they can share the company’s IP within a bubble. But you know, you’ve got to pay for that as an organization to create the infrastructure. Yeah. And then you need to encourage people to use it and train them how to use it too.
Renata: Mmm.Yep. Yeah.Yeah, that is a big transformation, isn’t it? You mentioned you were executive coaching and I’m wondering here, what sort of leaders do you think we’re going to need in the future or now to actually support this whole sort of big change that we’re see coming through?
Stella: Yeah, I think there’s probably, I think two things that would absolutely digitally enabled. ⁓ know, it’s sometimes if I meet ⁓ an executive now and I sort of, and I’ll probe them a little bit in terms of their digital mindset. You know, sometimes they’re nowhere near where they should be. And, ⁓ and I think that that should be a bit of a rude awakening for people in leadership roles that I think that if you want to be a leader,in 2025 and beyond, then you must build your digital muscle. It’s a necessary part, know, ⁓ ticket to the game as a leader. And that doesn’t mean that you need to go away and learn how to code. ⁓ It doesn’t mean that you need to go away and, you know, study a technology undergraduate, but it means that you need to stay on top of and abreast of what is happening in terms of digital advancements in your sector, in your industry.everyone’s got customers and clients, what are they doing? ⁓ And then what are your team and what do your staff need to be understanding and knowing about that? ⁓ So I think that that’s one really important side of it. And I think the other important side is actually being a compassionate leader. And I’ve done quite a bit of deep research into the compassionate leadership model. You’ll find some resources on my website.which do like a self test for compassionate culture and compassionate leadership because it’s actually evidence-based. And so we know that ⁓ if you actually ⁓ have those two things together that you then actually get some really beautiful leadership opportunities happening where you understand why you need to motivate people and help kind of move them forward, but compassionately and supporting them as well.And some people I think think, gosh, you know, the word compassionate is a little bit too soft. Can’t you kind of think of a different word? But you know what? Being a compassionate leader is actually very, very difficult. It’s really hard because it means that you, it’s more than empathy. It’s actually, empathy is actually about being able to listen and contain somebody in their moment of need. And a lot of people can learn to do that well and then full stop. Well, now what?When you’re a compassionate leader, what you have at your disposal is power. Power to change something, power to do something differently. Delegated authorities and access to people and resources and money and information, which your team doesn’t actually have. And so the next step to empathy is actually using those levers to make a change. And sometimes that change can actually bedisruptive, it can be uncomfortable. ⁓ So something that is good for the person and good for the organization isn’t always nice. And so confusing nice and good and confusing compassion for weakness is something that I see often. I think that, you know, understanding that they are really important leadership ⁓ components thatgo together, I see as really the leadership of the future combination that’s a winning one.
Renata: Okay, so let’s say in this organization, we have compassionate leadership as the norm. How does it translate into culture? What would you be able to perceive in the organization? I’m asking this because most of my listeners are looking for work, so it’s called the Job Hunting Podcast.
Stella: Yeah.Hahaha
Renata: And I think that there are some red flags or green flags that you can identify during the recruitment process. And I’m wondering here if you can help them identify those as they are being interviewed or considering joining a certain organization.
Stella: Yeah.Yeah, I think it’s difficult when you’re on the outside to have ⁓ a really good handle on that. I think, my goodness.
Renata: It’s okay. You have a very good microphone. It’s picking up on everything.
Stella: to be very compassionate towards my puppy right now.⁓And so I think, you know, being able to ⁓ have a look at the candidate feedback websites and get some insights into the experiences people have had through their recruitment experience with that organization is a lot of the times a reflection of that culture. And I find that it’s, you know, ⁓ sometimes a symbol.of what more is to come. so I think that understanding that, and then there’s also those, there’s lots of websites around employees who have exited. I think you need to be careful when you’re actually reading those, ⁓ because sometimes those issues of exits are complicated. ⁓ But having said that though, if there’s a common theme,⁓ that’s data and it’s an important source of data to listen to. So I think that, ⁓ you know, being able to understand what it was like for somebody reporting into somebody in that organization, ⁓ understanding the experience that they had in terms of wanting to grow as a professionally grow.⁓ But also having all of their, you we all have personal needs, how they were kind of balanced with the demands of the job ⁓ and how that experience, the employee experience played out for that person. There’s some data that you can gather to help you understand that a little bit and work out, okay, is this a compassionate culture or not? And…And I think that, you know, ⁓ I dare say that if we had a little focus group on, you know, who we thought some people’s brands are not compassionate, I think that they would be known. Yeah. And so there’s trade-offs because, you know, there’s trade-offs in terms of the way that the mechanics of certain organizations must operate within that sector or industry.
Renata: Yeah.That’s such a good point. Now, as we sort of get to the tail end of this chat, let’s think about job seekers who are unemployed at the moment, currently taking a break or about to go back into the workforce. This podcast is going out middle of May. We have June. June is end of financial year. Then we have July, July school holidays.So there is a little bit of a slow ⁓ season that we’re about to get into. What would be your advice for them if they wanted to use that slow season where they’re not hearing back a lot from recruiters, there’s not a lot of jobs advertised, what would be your advice on what they could do as they wait for the season to pick up again?
Stella: Yeah.Yeah, ⁓ I think there’s two things that they could do. And I’m sure that, you know, they’re probably already doing a ⁓ of these things anyway. But ⁓ considering a lot of people are working from home, it is hard to get official meetings with people in the office, in the city. But I do, I think that there are people who are actually quite happyto pop out for a coffee in their local neighborhood with you. And so, you know, I think that I would be really looking at my LinkedIn network and trying to work out, okay, well, who are the 10 people who I think can maybe help me in my current job search, but also who might be really great connections for me to have in my future as I go forward. And now is the opportunity because I canI’ve got time to travel. So I can reach out to them and say, hey, can we catch up for a coffee? I’m happy to travel to you. You know, is there a little local cafe that you’re happy to pop out to? Most people will say yes. And you know, they’ll turn up with a pair of jeans and, and a more, it’s a kind of a more relaxed way to connect with people. So that’s, think one thing that would be a valuable use of that time. And, and then I also think that, ⁓Going, working out what ⁓ learning I can invest in during that time will be really important as well. Now the challenge is that sometimes that’s the time where you don’t have an income. And so, you know, some of these ⁓ training and learning programs are charging thousands and thousands of dollars. ⁓ But finding the ones that are not charging that much money for the learning that they’re offering and there aresome lower cost and some free ⁓ ones. Absolutely, I would be doing those. And then you take those learnings into the coffee conversations that you’re having with people. And it’s actually a really ⁓ nice, ⁓ fruitful conversation. I’ve just finished this program on X, Y and Z. It was fascinating because I learned that A, B and C, I had no idea.is that going on in your organization? They go, my gosh, yes. And that’s a really lovely conversation to have with somebody rather than, hi, I’m Stella and I’m hoping that you might be helping me get a job. So I think that people will connect through learning really well through that period and it will, the by-product or the secondary product will be, we’ll go, gosh, maybe I should think about that person for that role.
Renata: Yeah, I love that. I’ve heard that OpenAI has a series of free learning programs now. So if you’re listening to this in May, it may still be the case. Have a look. I always love the Salesforce training because it’s all free. I think AWS has the same, they’re all free. And a while ago, yeah, and you mentioned…
Stella: Yeah.Yes? Yep.Google as well, and Microsoft.
Renata: Microsoft Cybersecurity, you mentioned cybersecurity in the beginning and I remember a friend of mine, he’s not a client, he did a short video on LinkedIn comparing three cybersecurity trainings that he had done, two were paid, one was free. And I thought that’s such a good way of showing A, that you’ve done the training and B, help people that are thinking about doing it choose. And he decided that the best one was actually the free one.I quite like it. Yeah.
Stella: Well, this is the thing that’s incredible. It is an incredible, you know, ⁓ time in our lives where we’re living through these wonderful richness of free learning. I don’t know how much it’s going to last, to be honest. So get out there and get it quick. ⁓ And I do think that when you turn up to a job interview and you that you can talk about AI, if you’re not talking about AI during your job interview, I think it might be a bit weird. Butyou know, it’s likely to come up. So you want to be able to say something about it, but then to also be able to say, you know, I’ve also done a little program on cyber security to understand how important it is to protect information, ⁓ you know, and whatever role I go into, I’m taking that with me and I go, ⁓ tick tick, that’s excellent. ⁓
Renata: That’s very good. Stella, tell me about VOST. What do you think VOST will be doing and engaging with with their clients in 2025 and beyond?
Stella: ⁓ I think, ⁓ you know, VOST will be very much about moving with ⁓ the growth in digital and technology and marrying that with human behaviour. So it’s actually the intersection and the connection of the two that VOST specialises in. ⁓ You know, we’re not technologists. ⁓and we’re more than psychologists. And so it’s actually kind of bringing those two together and working quite closely with collaborative partners who are really deep technologists and always playing a translational role. I do find that it is a translational scientist role to kind of go, okay, I need to understand this at a certain and then actually translate it for a leader, for an organization. Because if you don’t have the time,or the know-how to navigate around it, it can be a bit overwhelming or a bit scary sometimes. so ⁓ bringing people close to it and warming people to it, I think is the purpose really. And not be afraid, to not lead but with fear, to not ⁓ work with fear, but to be open and kind of build the future together really, to engage and collaborate together to create where we’re all going.
Renata: Lovely. I think that’s very telling. think that’s not just Voss that’s going there. I think it’s everything and everybody. All right. It was wonderful to have you here. I’m so delighted that you took the time. You have such a powerful microphone and a powerful voice and so much to say. You should be going on many other podcasts. Let me tell you. It’s been a pleasure.
Stella: Are you? Yes! ⁓it’s good fun. wasfabulous to be here today. Thank you so much for the invitation. Yeah, we should do it again one day. It’s great.
Renata: my book.
