Episode 304 - In this episode of The Job Hunting Podcast, TV journalist and confidence coach Ashleigh Paholek shares how to project authority and trust in interviews, presentations, and boardrooms. From mastering silence to improving your virtual presence, these strategies will help you influence with confidence — even when you don’t feel it.

Renata Bernarde (00:46)
let me start from the point when we first met, because we met when I went into that workshop organized by Charlotte, and I can put a link below if anybody’s in Melbourne and wants to connect with other.

Ashleigh Paholek (00:52)
Hmm.

Renata Bernarde (00:57)
people that want to grow on social media. That’s a great ⁓ little group of women to be involved in. And you did a presentation about communicating in public and speaking in public. And I thought that was perfect and so in line with the audience that I have, even though it’s a completely different audience from the workshop. We’re talking here about people in their forties and fifties and sixties who all of a sudden get elevated into a more ⁓ senior role.

Ashleigh Paholek (01:15)
Yeah.

Renata Bernarde (01:27)
all of a sudden they are having to go to Canberra to talk to politicians. They are managing hundreds of staff. They have to be up on stage to deliver reports or be in front of a weird looking board to be chosen for a job. And selection processes are usually now for senior executives and senior professionals. It’s about presenting, so you have to…

Ashleigh Paholek (01:44)
Yes.

Hmm.

Renata Bernarde (01:56)
bring a presentation and I really wanted to have your say here and your expertise. And I hope that some of the people would end up, you know, working with you as well, because there are some things that I can deliver as a coach, but you know, your expertise is a little bit sort of more niche and different exactly. But what drew you to journalism at first and now to helping professionals with their speaking engagements?

Ashleigh Paholek (02:15)
Different. Yeah.

It’s funny because I actually, when I was growing up, didn’t really care to be a TV journalist. I wasn’t, I wasn’t growing up being like, I want to be on TV when I grow up. I actually wanted to be a fashion designer and I just didn’t get in to the course that I wanted to. So I decided to instead, do an arts degree and I picked the subjects that I found the easiest. And so all of them just happened to be journalism subjects. And so the more I did it,

the more I enjoyed it and that’s sort of how I got into it, kind of nearly by accident. But when I was a teenager, I did host a travel show that went on TV in Australia and New Zealand. So like looking back, it all sort of makes sense. But at the time it wasn’t pre-planned that I wanted to be on television as a reporter. And I have now been in the industry for about 10 years. I’ve done a bit of everything from the social media side of it. I’ve done ⁓ reporting.

as well as producing. it’s the behind the scenes, putting the bulletin actually to air, like all the technical stuff and helping sort of shape the stories and what actually goes to air. But I’m also the one who’s out on the streets, who is in front of the camera, who is telling the stories as well. And I was doing that all throughout COVID and at the end of COVID, I felt really burnt out. I felt really burnt out. I didn’t feel like I had motivation. I just was lacking.

direction I feel like. And so I quit, I quit my job and I actually went traveling for the year. I went to South America for six months. I did a bit in Africa. went back to Europe. And during that time, I really was thinking about what do I feel passionate about? What do I feel purposeful doing? And for me, that was a lot of teaching people, helping people, ⁓ sharing knowledge, and just like having those.

in-person interactions. And so that’s why I love doing that. I love how we met because that is what I feel the best doing. And it was funny because when I was first sort of thinking about how I wanted to help people or what sort of things I wanted to share, I didn’t realize that not everyone felt comfortable asking questions, meeting new people, speaking in front of people, knowing how to, you know,

write what they’re going to say, know what they’re going to say, how to actually present it. I thought that they were just sort of common things that everyone knew how to do. And so when I realized that that wasn’t something that people knew how to do and that I had actually spent the past 10 years doing as a journalist, I was like, this is great because I love, this is what I love doing. And I love helping other people get to that stage as well, because it can be so nerve wracking. can be so scary.

But I think the best thing ⁓ is that it’s all learned. It’s all things that you can learn, practice and master. And that is what makes me so excited to help people be able to get their ideas across, be able to speak with influence, be able to use just little tweaks in their body language, in their tone, in their eye contact. It’s actually quite simple. Everything that I teach is quite simple. But when you put it all together, it makes such a difference.

Renata Bernarde (05:47)
Yeah, it’s interesting when something comes so naturally to you that you don’t even see that as a strength or a talent. And then you suddenly realize, ⁓ this is something I can do. Maybe I’m a few steps ahead of other people, but I can teach them. So that’s great. But you come across as somebody who has a lot of confidence in yourself and in the way that you speak. Have you always been like that?

Ashleigh Paholek (05:54)
Hmm.

Yes.

When I was a kid, I remember in high school, one of my friends said to me like offhandedly, she was like, ⁓ I want to be as confident as you when I grow up. And I felt like that was wild because I didn’t really think of myself as a confident person. But now I realized that I like to break confidence up into a couple of different ways, because when you say the word confidence or confident, it can feel quite overwhelming. It’s quite, ⁓

elusive, like it’s a very big word. And so I like to break it down into internal confidence and external confidence. Internal confidence are things like your thoughts, your beliefs, your patterns. ⁓ And external confidence is things like how you show up the strategy and how you talk to people asking questions, your body language, those kinds of things.

And so when I was younger, I think I had loads of external confidence. You know, I knew how to talk to people and show up and have like an energy of vibe about me, but I wouldn’t necessarily say that I felt super confident in myself. And even though, you know, you say that people still say to me, you know, you come across so confidently, but the thing is I am purposely making you feel that way because there are definitely times that I don’t feel confident.

There are times where I’m a nervous wreck that I’m freaking out, but I know how to make the other person believe that I’m confident because I know all of the little strategies and the tricks to actually do that. And so I’ll tell you a quick story about ⁓ a time recently when that was the case. So it was earlier in the year and it was around the time of the Australian Open. I had finished my story. was working at 10.

And I’d finished my story for the day. I was sitting down at my, in the office, just sort of waiting for my story to go to air, to check it and for it to go to air. And the time I reckon is about 20 past four. Our news goes to air at 5pm. And at about 20 past four, we’re watching the tennis obviously, and Novak pulls out. He has like a medical something and he pulls out. All we see is him walk off the court and we all start looking around.

Shocked. We’re all like, my gosh, this is huge. Obviously it’s newsworthy. So everyone’s looking around, what should we do? How should we cover it? And someone goes, Ashley’s finished. Let’s send her down to Melbourne park. And I was like, okay. So I grabbed all my stuff and jumped in an Uber. Remember again, that the news goes to air at 5 PM and it is now 4 30 and I’m in the Uber. I’m in the Uber trying to figure out what’s actually happened.

Renata Bernarde (08:33)
you

Ashleigh Paholek (08:59)
because all we know is that he’s left the court and that he’s not coming back, that he’s pulled out. So I’m trying to find out as much information as I can because in half an hour I’m going live on air and I’ve got to tell everyone what’s happening. So I’m trying to find out. The Uber driver is also talking to me because he’s very interested. He’s like, you’re going to Melbourne park? I’m like, yes, I’m a reporter. And he’s trying to engage me in conversation and have fun. But I’m like, I’m so sorry, I’ve got to work.

And so it takes like 20 minutes to get there. So it’s now 10 minutes until I’m live and I’m still getting information about what’s actually unfolded because Novak is now holding a press conference talking about why he pulled out. I can’t listen to it because I’m trying to get ready. putting my earpiece in. I’m trying to still write notes about what is actually happening. I’m trying to I’m helping my cameraman bring all the gear. You know, like there’s a lot going on.

And so I’ve got a producer or someone back in the newsroom helping me by like sending me little bits of information about what’s happening in the press conference at the time. And I am still trying to weave it all together. And so it’s five minutes to five. I’m standing there with my microphone, my earpiece, which connects me to the newsroom and I’ve got lights.

I’ve got the camera in front of me. It’s at Melbourne Park. So there’s all these people leaving. They’re interested. They’re coming over and trying to talk to me. And I’m trying to figure out what I’m going to say. In that moment, my mind is racing. You know, of course the adrenaline is pumping, but I’m starting to freak out a little bit because I don’t know a ton about tennis. I haven’t really been following it.

I don’t know how to say everyone’s name because they’ve all got different weird names. And again, this is sort of unfolding right as I’m about to talk. So I’m trying to work out the best way how to structure it, how to actually get my points across. So I’m really nervous. I’m freaking out. And I hear the start of the bulletin through my earpiece.

I hear their newsreader begin the bulletin. You know, we begin now with some breaking news down at Melbourne Park. Ashley Paholic joins us live. Ashley, tell us what’s going on. In that moment, it is make or break. It is live television. So I don’t get a second chance. Whatever I say goes to air. Whatever I don’t say goes to air. So if I freak out and shut down, that’s what goes to air. So I thankfully

get through the cross. But I’ve got another cross in two minutes time to Sydney’s newsroom, to Sydney’s news. And 10 minutes after that, I got another cross to Brisbane. And then 10 minutes after that, I have to record for Perth. So it is all happening very quickly. Things are changing. I know, and you know, on the other side, though, the people who are watching me, they wouldn’t know.

that I was a nervous wreck just before, that I was freaking out, that I ran over to my cameraman, that I was still trying to work out what to say moments before going on air. They would have had no idea because I used a couple of different techniques that really portray confidence to the other person and instills trust. And they wouldn’t have known that, my legs were shaking a little bit and that I was really nervous. And those kinds of things include slowing down my voice, making it slightly deeper.

It includes having a really solid planted stance. It includes using my hand gestures, using eye contact, even though it’s down the barrel of the camera, that really helps build trust and connection. And so those kinds of things not only portray confidence to other people, but it also made me feel confident and comfortable in what I was saying. And I know that, you know, a lot of people hopefully won’t have to be in that situation, but it is a high pressure.

high stakes situation where you can’t get it wrong. You want to perform your best. You want to say things that, you know, you want to, you want to do well. And that is something that everyone feels. Everyone has felt that everyone can take those sort of lessons and those things that I use and those things that I implement because that, that can be used no matter the situation. You don’t have to be going live to be using those little techniques.

Renata Bernarde (13:38)
I love that example because even though it’s completely outside of the executive search and corporate workplace environments, you’re right. They are very similar in the sense that you are caught unawares at times when you are in a meeting and people all of a sudden turn to you and say, what do you think about this report? Or what do you have to say about the work that you’ve done? And you’re on the spot and there are 30 people looking at you or I don’t know how many.

Ashleigh Paholek (13:44)
Hmm.

Renata Bernarde (14:05)
And in a job interview situation, yes, you can be prepared, but you never really know what you’re going to ask. having those, the body language and the tone and the pace of how you present really does help a lot. It helps you feel more comfortable, but I also think you’re right about helping the audience have trust in you. Right?

Ashleigh Paholek (14:12)
Yes.

Mm. Mm.

Yes,

Renata Bernarde (14:34)
And I think that this

Ashleigh Paholek (14:34)
yes.

Renata Bernarde (14:35)
is something really important. I will give you a couple of examples of things that I see ⁓ and I want you to give your expert opinion. A lot of people feel like when they’re going for a job interview, they need to speak a lot to share what they have to say. Whereas ⁓ this may not be the

Ashleigh Paholek (14:53)
Mm.

Renata Bernarde (15:02)
the best strategy, right? So if they work on their pace and work on their tone, that may be better than speaking too much and answering questions and taking too long to answer questions. What do you think about that?

Ashleigh Paholek (15:17)
Hmm.

I think that it’s really important that what we say is concise and it really hits because anyone can yap, anyone can talk. And that’s actually quite a nervous tendency to over talk. And so if you’re able to really share what you have to say in a way that is concise and hits, I think that people really respect that. using silence, you know, that’s such a

tricky thing to actually use, it is very powerful. And it can be used in a number of different ways to, you know, get the other person thinking. It can be used as to highlight something that you’re saying, to move on to a new topic, to sort of get the other person thinking about what you’ve just said. And I think that a lot of people are nervous to use it because they feel every millisecond of that silence and they feel like they have to

keep talking over that because that shows that they’re unprepared. But when you comfortably sit in it, I think that that’s when it’s really powerful. But I think that a lot of people are scared of making mistakes. And one thing I forgot to say in that story is that I did make a mistake during those live crosses. I fumbled over my words and I said Rod Laver. no, I said Lord Raver instead of Rod Laver. But I think

what makes someone ⁓ confident is making mistakes, but then it’s how you are able to recover from those mistakes. Whether it’s someone who then fumbles around and says, sorry, ⁓ okay. And then they get mumbled and you can tell that they’re frazzled by that mistake and they apologize for it. And then it takes over 10 more seconds of their precious time.

Renata Bernarde (16:53)
Yeah.

Ashleigh Paholek (17:08)
You can tell that that person is really uncomfortable and not very confident. Whereas if you can roll with that punch, you can keep it going and you can rebound really quickly. Not only does it make you seem human, it builds that quick connection with people. But I think that people find a lot more respect and builds credibility with what you’re saying because you are thinking on your feet. And it does show that you do know what you’re talking about because even though you’ve had a misstep.

You’re not focusing on that. You’re keeping on going. And I think that that’s really important ⁓ for people to realise that you can make mistakes. And sometimes that can be more powerful than being perfect.

Renata Bernarde (17:52)
Actually, one thing that I’ve noticed is that you don’t make a lot of mistakes and also that you don’t use a lot of filler words. So when I’m interviewing people for this podcast and the listeners may not know this, but we have an editing software that removes all the filler words or some of the filler words just so that all the especially my ums, I do a lot of And it’s because I am thinking and.

Ashleigh Paholek (18:01)
Mm.

Renata Bernarde (18:21)
English is my second language. have a few excuses for that. You don’t have that. You don’t have filler words and you don’t have ⁓ awkward silences as well. seems like you, it makes us think that you are very well prepared. Is there training for that?

Ashleigh Paholek (18:25)
Yeah, that’s your excuse.

For sure. ⁓ Look, I just said an then. I think that I do make mistakes, but I don’t highlight them. So you’re not thinking about them because I’ve kept going and you’re not, we’re not back at the mistake that I just made because we’re keeping on going forward. And I, instead of saying the word ⁓ or ⁓ I do say them, but so it’s nice that you don’t think that I do, but I just have a little bit of silence instead. I’ve stopped myself from actually saying it.

Renata Bernarde (18:46)
Yeah?

Ashleigh Paholek (19:10)
But I think that it does surprise people the amount of strategy that you can have going into any type of conversation or interaction. You might look at me in this conversation and be like, she’s just a conversationalist. She just is so good and natural, but I’ve prepared for this. I’ve got key points that I want to talk about. I’ve got different ways of illustrating my points to make sure that they hit. I have come in very prepared, but

The more that you prepare, the more that you practice that preparation, the less it seems like I have preparation. And that’s where you really want to get to, because that means that you’re going to be coming across much more casually, much more personal. You’re not going to sound robotic. And it does come down to the preparation behind the scenes. And I’m not going to lie, there’s a lot that can go into it. And the more you practice it, the easier it gets.

Renata Bernarde (20:06)
Another ⁓ question that I’ve often had from female clients when they have ⁓ voices that are very thin or very feminine, they want to work on their voices and that’s something that as a coach, I don’t have the expertise to do. Have you ever encountered this? I think there’s even a Hollywood movie. It’s not a very famous movie, but it was a movie about a woman in LA who was

Ashleigh Paholek (20:12)
Mm.

Renata Bernarde (20:35)
helping women with their tone. And I thought, ⁓ I need to find that movie again and watch it again.

Ashleigh Paholek (20:38)
Mm.

I am not a movie girl, so you could have referenced any movie and I would have just nodded along because I have no idea. I barely watch movies. So anyway, but yes, voice is so important and it’s interesting because I have a very strong reporter voice and it’s something that I have had to work on for 10 years. When I first started, it was the bane of my existence. People hated it. I got so much bad feedback.

Renata Bernarde (20:49)
you

Ashleigh Paholek (21:11)
that I worked on it relentlessly. And people don’t realize, I guess, the work behind the scenes on making sure that your voice ⁓ can work. But the thing is, you just assume that your voice is who you are. But it’s again, something that you can practice and use. And there are different ways, you know, if you say the same thing in a deeper tone and slower, it means something different.

Whereas if I say the same thing with a bit of a higher tone and a smile on my face, it means something different again. And the thing is they’re all me, all of those versions, all of those different tones, all of those different vocal varieties, it’s all me. And that’s actually sort of a limiting belief when people say, I, can’t come across confidently because my voice is just, I have like a low voice or I’m just shy or whatever it is. That’s a limiting belief.

That’s not who I am. I’m not someone who speaks loudly. I can’t. You can. And it’s something that you can work on and that you can practice. It just feels uncomfortable because it’s unnatural to you at this stage. But the more that you practice it and the more you realize that you can just play with your voice, I think that that’s really powerful. And just because it’s not a certain way right now, it doesn’t mean that it is.

Like, it doesn’t mean that you can’t get there.

Renata Bernarde (22:42)
Yes, I love all of what you said and what you just said before about speaking with a smile or speaking at a lower tone and the difference that it makes. I don’t think most people realize that they are coming across differently. And I say this because in my audience, this is the job hunting podcast. A lot of people are currently unemployed and without realizing it, they are going into interviews or having conversations with people.

Ashleigh Paholek (22:51)
Hmm.

Renata Bernarde (23:11)
with a sad tone or an angry tone, right? And I can tell that so visually for me, even though I see all of my clients via Zoom, when they start working with me, their body language is different from when they finished working with me, their voice, their energy levels, I can tell. And that also happens in an interview situation when they’re talking. So if they’re not getting through in an interview situation,

Ashleigh Paholek (23:15)
Mmm. ⁓

Renata Bernarde (23:41)
I think most of the time it’s because of how they’re performing and communicating. So I love what you said just before. And for that reason, I would love for you to give some exercises that you swear by that maybe people can do from home and it will help them.

Ashleigh Paholek (23:46)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

I think when we talk about those tiny tweaks, you know, the body language, the volume, the vocal variety, it isn’t difficult. It’s more understanding what everything means. And so the best exercise to start with is looking at other people. People watch. Have a look at someone at the cafe. Do they have their legs crossed? Do they have their arms crossed?

Are their shoulders hunching over? Are they looking down, avoiding eye contact, or are they looking around? That is, you know, that is ⁓ giving off vibes to other people. They’re unapproachable. They don’t look very confident. They don’t look very comfortable in a situation. Whereas if you don’t have your legs crossed, if you have your shoulders wide, if you have your chin up, if you’re looking around, that again gives off a different vibe. And so start by having a look.

at what other people around you look like and what sort of energy or vibe you’re getting from them. And then you can start thinking about that in terms of yourself. Another thing that I love is hand movement. When you can see my hands, the trust is there a lot more. It’s a psychological trick where you can build trust quicker if your hands are showing because, you know, I’m not hiding anything. And so I’ve got my hands, if I do a slight turn, that’s how high they are right now.

on the zoom call, but that’s because I know the framing. And so I know that that looks natural, but on the side it’s not. yeah, have a, have a think about what, how other people around you, what their body language is saying. And then also have a think about what your body language is saying as well. And I think that that’s the easiest way to start because once you understand what vibes you’re giving off, body language is actually a two way street.

Nonverbal communication is a two way street. So not only is it giving off the vibes to other people, it’s also solidifying in my own brain, in my own thoughts, in my own patterns, that that is the vibe as well. So if I’m sitting there with my arms crossed, looking down, avoiding eye contact, that’s giving unapproachable, it is giving not very comfortable, not very sure of myself.

I’m feeling that same inside right now. My brain is saying she doesn’t feel comfortable. This is a protection mechanism and I don’t really feel like interacting with anyone. And so then that is going to cycle through in my brain and that is going to then mean that that’s how I interact with people. So it’s a, it’s a big loop that is ⁓ changing and influencing how people perceive you and how you perceive yourself. And if you perceive yourself as someone who is

Renata Bernarde (26:33)
Hmm.

Ashleigh Paholek (26:52)
shy, someone who ⁓ doesn’t get success as someone who isn’t good at public speaking, you’re going to keep finding evidence and ways to reiterate that to your own brain because we want to be right. It’s called confirmation bias. So you want to be right. You’re going to keep finding evidence to support that and then it’s going to keep on happening. And so that’s where it can get really dangerous, but it also means that it’s easy to change.

Renata Bernarde (27:15)
Yeah.

Ashleigh Paholek (27:20)
Because once we understand that and once we understand what our body language and nonverbal communication is saying, we’re the ones that can change that. So it’s actually quite powerful.

Renata Bernarde (27:33)
Yes, I love everything that you said and even what you said about and people if you’re listening to this you can go on YouTube or on the job hunting podcast website to see Ashley and myself because this is a video format as well. ⁓ Yes, many of the interviews these days especially the initial ones are done via Zoom or Teams but if your body language in Zoom or Teams

allows you to use your hands and show, you know, your upper body. And if you have that stance where your feet is on the ground and that will transpire in the conversation, it will make you more confident and so forth. So your environment and how you exist in it, all of that influences your presentation. One of the things that I found out recently

Ashleigh Paholek (28:26)
Yes.

Renata Bernarde (28:30)
And it made me really worried because so many of my clients, especially my female clients, when their roles are made redundant, they receive a package. The first thing that they do is I need to update my look, go buy some clothes. I need to do some facials and dye my hair because I’m going into job interviews. And they go and they get a lot of botox. And because you know.

Ashleigh Paholek (28:46)
Mm.

Really?

Renata Bernarde (28:55)
Yeah, that’s very normal, very normal, if not more things, you know, but at least ⁓ Botox. And there are a couple of interesting, I feel like Botox is going in a downhill trajectory because there has been some ⁓ research, which I’m, you know, I’m not a doctor, but, research that shows that it can migrate to your brain if you put too much Botox on your forehead. That’s a bit scary. ⁓

But what’s more interesting is some research that’s coming out of the UK about the slowing down of children’s development because the mothers don’t have a lot of facial expressions. And I’m like, wow, this is interesting. So you see all of these mothers in their 30s putting Vodox in their faces and the children, the reason why babies stare at you is because they’re learning cues from you. They’re learning.

Ashleigh Paholek (29:35)
Hmm. ⁓

Mm.

Renata Bernarde (29:50)
you know, what’s said and what’s happy from your facial expression. if you, it’s slowing down children’s development because so many mothers are using Botox. And the other thing that I thought was really interesting is this area of research where it’s looking, and we knew this years ago. So when positive psychology started, we knew that emotions happen on reverse. So if you are feeling sad, but you

force yourself to smile and you hold that smile for a minute, it will affect your endorphins and it will make you feel better. Right. So it’s a weird thing to do. A lot of people when they’re very depressed, they might put something like to hold their smile, like a ⁓ pencil or something to force that smile because it’s so hard to smile when you’re sad. ⁓

So things can happen in reverse and what may be happening and is it is still, you know, if I find the research, I promise I’ll put it in the episode show notes. What they’re finding is that it’s reducing leaders empathy if they’re using too much Botox because they have no expression. So when people come to them with their problems, they cannot relate in their expressive ways with their facial expression. So they do not.

Ashleigh Paholek (30:59)
Mmm.

Renata Bernarde (31:11)
feel empathy inside their brains because they’re not showcasing it. So what I’ve been telling my clients for the past, I don’t know, six months is like, go easy on the Botox because you’re gonna be interviewed. All they can see via Zoom or Teams is your face. And if you’re not agreeing with them and showing that, you know, like I’m right now making some faces here to kind of use my brains, I actually naturally do not have a lot of.

Ashleigh Paholek (31:15)
Mmm.

Renata Bernarde (31:40)
movement here that’s genetic. Isn’t it great? It’s my dad’s genes, my dad’s indigenous. Thank you, dad. So I don’t have a lot of movement up there, but ⁓ yeah, it’s important for us to use the tools we have. And right now, know, people in the past up until the pandemic is to buy a new business suit, you don’t even need a new business suit to go for a job interview these days.

Ashleigh Paholek (31:47)
Thank you, Dad.

Hmm. I, yes, I actually have not bought a new piece of clothing this year. And that says a lot because I go on camera a lot and I just wear the same things. And so I feel like there is power in not needing a full revamp, but I do understand that you feel that people feel like they want a little bit of a zhuzh up because you know, they want to change their energy. They want to ⁓ get a few tweaks to like feel better about.

Renata Bernarde (32:09)
because it will be via Zoom.

Ashleigh Paholek (32:38)
themselves. And so I feel like that’s fair enough, but it’s really interesting about the Botox. And I think that that is very interesting because I do a lot of expression in my forehead. people wouldn’t see, unless you’re watching us right now, I have a lot of nonverbal cues that are showing that I’m listening and that I’m interested because that keeps Renata speaking without me verbally interrupting her.

Renata Bernarde (32:50)
We do, yeah.

Ashleigh Paholek (33:08)
which is important on something like this because it’s all about the audio, but it’s also important in building connections really quickly to make the other person feel like you understand what they’re saying. And so the amount of times that you nod, the speed of your nod, the going up in your forehead, raising your eyebrows, little bits of smiles, like those micro expressions actually make such a difference in building a really quick connection with someone.

And that’s really important as a journalist because I meet so many people every single day and I have to get them to trust me enough to go on camera and speak on camera very quickly, very, very quickly. And so I know all of these tiny little micro expressions and little body movements that mean certain things. And I know how to then go around it to try and make them feel a certain way. And so that’s why

It’s actually very interesting. I feel like a lot of people in TV get a lot of Botox because you know, we obviously want to look good. Our face is our moneymaker. But I know that a lot of us can’t get too much because you need that expression. And so and it’s that I find that interesting then yeah, thinking about people who are doing job interviews via zoom or online. That’s really important. Yeah.

Renata Bernarde (34:20)
Yes.

Yeah, and I actually recommend, and if you’re listening, you know, I think this is such a great episode for you to think about where to invest, know, investing in paying attention to your ⁓ body language, the way you speak, your tone of voice, listening to your audience. ⁓ But if you know that most of your interviews are going to be done online, investing in a good microphone.

in technology and having proper internet and a good lighting. mean, your lighting is really good. I don’t know what sort of light you’re using. ⁓ But these are not very expensive investments. If you’re smart, you can do these investments really cheaply. ⁓ But they will pay off in spades. What were you saying about lighting?

Ashleigh Paholek (35:08)
Hmm. Hmm.

And lighting for me is… Sorry.

Lighting for me is so important because it makes you feel a lot better. Like if I’m in a dark corner and I’ve got shadows all across my face, I feel like I look ugly. And if I feel like I look ugly, I’m not going to be giving my best personality. I’m not going to be feeling comfortable in myself. Whereas I’ve got my pink blazer on, which I love. It makes me feel good. I’ve got nice lighting from this way and I’ve got a bit of natural lighting from the front. And I feel like that just makes me like that’s my, I’m putting it on now, you know?

And it’s knowing how and when to put it on. And those little tweaks make such a difference. And I think listening to you say about the things that you should invest in, definitely understanding body language, but, the nonverbal communication, but also knowing that you can go in with strategy. think that that’s really important as well. You don’t have to go in.

blindly, it’s very easy to start thinking about the strategy that you can take in. You already know that they’re going to ask a specific type of question. And so let’s not use any, let’s not waste any of our time. Let’s give the other person as many opportunities to latch onto something of interest when you were talking. So if someone, you know, I know as soon as I meet someone for the first time, they’re to say, what do you do? And so I’ve got a pre-prepared

little pitch, ready to go. That is like my highlights reel. And so I say, you know, I’m a TV journalist, but I’m also a confidence and communications coach. And then if that lights their eyes up, then I’ll start talking about that a little bit more. But if that doesn’t, I go and I love, you know, empowering women and talking and really helping them develop in their careers. But I haven’t always been like this. A couple of years ago, I actually went traveling for a whole year. And then I start talking about traveling and seeing what engages them.

So I don’t use dead space. I’m very conscious of the words that I’m saying and keeping someone’s attention because I know that people don’t have very long attention spans anymore. And so make it really easy for the other person to engage and be interested in what you’re talking about by giving them, it’s called conversational threading, by giving them as many things to latch onto as possible. And so you don’t have to go into a job interview like,

with notes and notes, you should know already that they’re going to ask you a couple of different questions. So let’s think about how best to word it, your answer or what key points you want to hit in your answer.

Renata Bernarde (37:47)
and

I love all that. That will be such a great content for the audience to think about. Ashley, thank you so much. I don’t want to take too much of your time. I know you’re busy. If people want to reach out to you, I will have the links below so that they can find you. But is there any final messages you want to leave the audience with?

Ashleigh Paholek (38:12)
think it’s that confidence is something that you can learn, you can practice and you can master. But also confidence isn’t a destination. You don’t just wake up one day and you’re like, ⁓ I’m confident and I’m here and I’m going to be here forever. Confidence is actually something that you have to work towards every single day in every single moment. And that how I do that is I am presented with a situation, a scenario, and I think to myself, what would the most confident version of Ashley do?

say, think in this situation, and then I do it. And then I say it, then I think it, you know. And the more you do that, the more, the easier it becomes. The less resistance there’s going to be, you’re going to be changing your neural pathways to make sure that that will become the initial response to a different situation. And that’s really how you’re going to build confidence in how you’re going to eventually feel like you’ve got confidence, but it is in those little tiny decisions.

those little tiny expressions, those little tiny body language, those little tiny strategies that you can bring in. All of those are just little decisions. And the more it builds up, the more confident you get.

Renata Bernarde (39:24)
Awesome, thank you so much for coming to the podcast.

Ashleigh Paholek (39:26)
Thank you.