Well hello everyone and welcome to The Job Hunting Podcast. I'm Renata Bernarde, your host, and in this podcast I give you tips, advice, and sometimes I interview people to help you nail your next job and have the best career. As I said before, this podcast is a one stop shop for career enthusiasts, people that are ambitious to achieve their career goals, job hunters, job hunting prospects, people that are keen to keep a finger on the pulse so that when you are ready to find your next job, you know exactly what to do. If you are a veteran professional facing career disruption or you are in transition or if you're a rising star, who wants to learn as much as you can to enable you a future career progression and your personal goals. Well, this podcast is for all of you. Here you will hear from experts and professionals that came from different backgrounds that have a few years or decades of experience ahead of you have different stories and examples to share and from whom you can get advice to enable your personal career goals.
Today. I will be sharing yet another audio from my Facebook live video series. On my Facebook Page @renatabernarde.co, which you should follow by the way, I do weekly live videos on usually on Thursdays, Australian Eastern daytime. I use Facebook lives as an opportunity to communicate live with my followers, deliver unscripted presentations on topics that have been on my mind and it's a great way to communicate in real time and I really enjoy doing them. This audio is from the very beginning of my Facebook page and my whole project including this podcast and I received a lot of feedback from women and I decided, huh, this lends itself to a video. I don't want to waste any time and forget about it and I just filmed it straight away. You can tell that it was my first video and I have a lot of nerves, but you can also feel my passion for this subject and how much I care about women achieving, women breaking the glass ceiling, helping each other, advocating for each other and moving upwards in their careers.
I hope you enjoy it. This is a short one, but I thought it was an important one to share here. I don't want the podcast listeners to miss out on any of the great content out there and I wanted you to also listen to this bit of information that was previously only available on my Facebook page. Before we go ahead, if you're a newbie to this podcast, you should join my community. Go to www.renatabernarde.com/join and I will send you every week a newsletter with a lot of great content that I put together just for my community and the new episode of this podcast. I also will give you some free content right at the beginning of this community engagement like webinars, guides and templates to help you achieve a lot in your job hunting pursuit if you're in that stage of your career right now. So find this link on the Facebook page, Instagram account, or on the episode show notes and join straight away. Okay. Without further ado, here it is. Notes that this is an audio of a live Facebook video. So if sometimes I say something like hi to someone or I comment or on something that's happening in real time, it's because it was filmed in real time. I hope you enjoy listening to it.
Hi everyone. I am so sorry. I thought on Friday I had uploaded a video and it was about 20 minutes long. It was a live video. It was supposed to be and it never happened and I don't know what happened. I thought I had filmed it. I thought I had uploaded it and it wasn't there and I was so much more prepared that day was going for a lot of meetings in the city on Friday and I came back late and realized only the next day that it never made it to Facebook. And I'm just learning guys, so I'm glad that they're not too many of you in this group and that you all know me very well. So you will forgive me for my inexperience with live Facebook groups. I never thought I was going to be doing something like this.
But you know what? I do watch a lot of my mentors live and, and I think it's brilliant and I look forward to seeing them on Facebook and you know, like people that are helping me supporting me create this online course or develop my business and I thought it would be good for you to see me live as well. Also because of course after the launch on Thursday, I got lots of interesting feedback by I received calls, and I got some emails and there was a pattern and the feedback were mostly about women who were trying to go up to let's say C level roles and they were really struggling. So they were in the market, they had a good position, but they felt constantly overlooked for senior roles. And I know exactly how they feel. I hope that they don't feel isolated. I hope that they know that there are lots of women in those situations. And I'd like to address that in this video shortly.
But first of all, we have this tendency to look at great women or anybody, but let's stick with this example of women that are in C level roles. They go on stage, they use their platform and we know about their story and we think that if we replicate that story we will also be successful, well it's not the case. It's almost the same as thinking that because somebody won the lottery, if you follow their example of whatever pattern they’ve done for two decades, it will make you win the lottery as well. That's how hard it is for a woman to be in a C-level position. So you have to know that there are lots of stories of women that have tried similar techniques or strategies or followed similar patterns with their professions and never made it, right? And that's the majority. So be careful with the success bias and be careful with comparing yourself or thinking, why is it not working for me? I'm doing exactly what she's done and it hasn't worked for me.
Well, the truth is there are so few women in C level roles that it is a lottery. So be careful with success bias. The other thing, I think if you do, like I have been in positions where you are considered for C level roles, you're usually competing with men with a few exceptions, some good exceptions in fact. In sectors like the not for profit sector, there are amazing women in that sector and then you know, you might be in a shortlist with lots of other women, but normally, and I'm talking here, finance, professional services, legal firms, manufacturing, everything else in the world, you will be comparing with lots of men competing with lots of men. In that case, what you have is usually a very linear career from your fellow guys competing for the role. Whereas women usually have somewhat of a patchy career progression.
They sometimes go sideways to the top because they feel the glass ceiling internally and they can't compete. Hi! There are people watching. I can't believe it. I thought it was talking to myself. Hi Danny. Hi Penny. Nice to talk to you one in, Oh my God. One in Brazil and one in on the gold coast. Fantastic. So I lost my line of thought.
Okay, let's go back to this. The patchy career. Of course, many women have kids and they take time off so they come back and they have to sometimes go back a step. They might start back part time, they might start in a role that it's not really suitable for their career progression, but it's suitable for their flexibility. Oh my God, lots of hearts. This is going to distract me so much. Thank you guys.
And that is terrible in terms of the bias that it has, any effect that it has on the panel selecting you. Right. So somebody who has been in the same manufacturing sector for example for years has progressed from cadet to graduate to junior to associate manager to deputy manager to a vice president role is much more, it's less risky for a selection panel to adopt that person as their next C level guy, than a woman that has swapped and changed and had quite a patchy way up. And that's something that we need to address and I'm really keen to address that eventually with this platform like seriously address this because there is so much strength, creativity and experience that a different style of career can bring to leadership and we haven't really been able to create a narrative about why it's important for us to have that diversity, not just of gender, but of experience in the leadership teams and in corporate sectors and public sectors as well.
And then what happens is once women do get C level roles and they make mistakes as men also do, as many people do, it's a very steep linear curve towards the top. What happens is they're less forgiven. There is a very short window where women have to be really performing well, otherwise they will be scrutinised and criticised and they might tumble. And in Australia I have two examples to give you. One in the sports sector, I can't remember her name unfortunately, or the footy [football] club she was a CEO of. I hope somebody eventually watching this video later on will know and put it in the comments. But she was a great leader in a not for profit sector (I think it was the Alannah and Madeline Foundation) and that she came from really successful, joined this club and in a year she was gone.
And I don’t think she was a perfect CEO. Quite frankly, nobody's perfect in their first year. Really. Right? Like it's very rare for a CEO to kick start the ball rolling. I mean just look at the Royal commission. We, you know, in Australia we've had a Royal commission in the banking sector. The old CEOs had to leave because it was just that bad. And then the new CEOs are not performing that well yet. You know, it's really hard and they're all male as far as I can tell the new ones. So yeah, but the women are less forgiven and there is much more scrutiny on what they're doing.
Another good example is Australians, ABC, Michelle Guthrie, the ABC in Australia is equivalent to BBC in UK or the PBS in the US and so it's a big deal to be the CEO of ABC and she didn't last long as well. In fact, she, it was really quite ruthless the way that she left that organisation. And again, I'm not saying everything she's done was right. You know, we've scrutinised her so much. There's a bias to think, “Oh she was a terrible CEO”. Who knows? You know, the guy before her, must have left a mess. You wouldn’t know. You don't know that. Right. And I totally, what women in C level tell me is that they inherit messy situations. They inherit, women know, you know, like we have a different style of leadership and we need to fix things up before we move forward. That's usually the leadership style that we discuss in the closet rooms where we don't sort of talk about it openly because it will affect their career, so we can't. But that's kind of the three things I wanted to say about women in C level roles but we will address them in future podcasts and in other videos where I can share more of my experience. Right?
So Oi de Brazil! Oi de Brazil Danny, Danny, I like Danny because Danny has a very flexible career. She's an absolutely brilliant light architect, and I like the way that she still has a very international interesting career and can do that in the comfort of her beautiful home that she designed for herself. That's great. All right guys and I will see you in a future video. Bye.
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